Ivory Hunters: History of the Detroit Tigers Scouting and Development -Eddie Goosetree (pt.3) - Ep 112

What if the scouting strategies of the 1930s are the secret to modern baseball success? Join us as we journey through the foundational era of the Detroit Tigers, where the Mississippi River became a strategic dividing line for talent acquisition. We'll uncover how Bob Coleman and Del Baker's pivotal roles in the early minor league system laid the groundwork for the 1935 championship team, offering compelling comparisons to today's practices.

Celebrate the legacy of legendary scout Eddie Goosetree, whose astute eye for talent brought future stars like Schoolboy Rowe and Virgil Trucks to the Tigers. Hear the captivating stories of Goosetree's signings, including the Walker brothers, and the serendipitous moments that made baseball history. Discover how Goosetree's dedication and savvy scouting techniques shaped the Tigers' success and left an indelible mark on the sport.

Ever wondered about the adventures and ethical dilemmas of early baseball scouts? We take you on a nostalgic ride through the colorful world of talent recruitment, sharing tales from Goosetree's escapades and the fierce rivalries with other scouts. We'll also explore the evolution of newspaper reporting in Detroit, capturing the vibrant and competitive nature of the industry that brought sports news to life. Join us for a thrilling episode packed with intriguing stories and rich history, and don't forget to like, subscribe, and share our passion with a friend!

https://linktr.ee/DetroitCityofChampions

www.DJJamieDetroit.com

www.WearingFunny.com

Transcript

Announcer: 0:00

1935, the Lions win the NFL championship, the Detroit Tigers take the World Series, the Red Wings bring home Lord Stanley's Cup. Joe Lewis begins his rise to world domination. This transforms the Motor City into Detroit City of Champions.

Jamie Flanagan: 0:22

Ah, there's the crack of the bat and the game is on it's Detroit. City of Champions. The podcast I'm Jamie Flanagan, charles Avison, and it's the deep dive into 1935. Deep dive. And all the amazing things happening in and around Detroit, the City of Champions story.

Charles Avison: 0:43

Yes, I was waiting for you to finish up that thought.

Jamie Flanagan: 0:46

That was it. It was done yeah.

Charles Avison: 0:50

No see, we're diving deep into it. We're looking at the Tigers minor league system in the early 30s, yeah, and of course the relevance of it is that this is the formative age for the affiliated model that the Tigers have today, right, with the teams that are literally owned by the Tigers, with dedicated coaches and scouts that are roving the prairies looking for that diamond in the rough, and so, like I say, this is the beginning of that. So we're talking about the names and sort of legends of the time, the people that built the Detroit Tigers, quite literally, yeah, so we've been talking about how the Tigers, how their scouting, was divided between the Mississippi River was their dividing point and I'm not sure how other teams did it. And, to my knowledge, I'm not aware of any really other shows out there that talk about like the history of any major league team's scouting and development system, like the actual mechanics of how it works, right, right, and so that's especially for the Tigers. I mean, there's nothing out there that talks about, again, the mechanics of how of like the history of a team's.

Charles Avison: 2:13

You know, and I think it's one of the, just in general, because I spend, you know, a ton of time studying baseball for this other project. You know, with this baseball analytics thing I do, yeah, and it's just really staggering that there's a lot of history on the Major League teams. Of course there's a lot of history on the teams but there's just not really a big study of again to use the same word mechanics. Who are the people that built these teams? What was their philosophy behind the mechanics of how these minor league systems were built? When I say I think it's kind of ingenious, they used the Mississippi River as their dividing line.

Charles Avison: 2:58

They had the east of the department east of the Mississippi and the department west of the Mississippi. I mean that's a great concept. I mean you know that that basic premise of how you're going to split responsibilities and split territories, and that you know that's what I mean. Like it's, I just think it's. I think it's interesting because by studying the mechanics and how the, the, the development of how things are today is how you appraise and say did they do things right? Did they do things wrong? How do they do it today? Is it improved, is it worse? Was it a better way to do it back in the day? And so that's kind of where we're at. That's why I was saying we're taking a look at how they did it back then, and in the books you touch on this.

Jamie Flanagan: 3:44

In the books is this in an appendix? This is in appendix at the end of the second book. Okay, and so you get into these details a little bit. A lot of bit, yeah.

Charles Avison: 3:53

There's a ton of stuff. It's like kind of having to kind of focus in. That's why we're kind of taking it show by show with each of these concepts, these people and that, because there really is quite a bit to cover. I was taking notes for the next few shows in advance and I'm looking and I'm like, do we put the next show? Do we do? There's a couple other scouts in there I want to talk about. There's a guy named Bob Coleman who was just an absolute legend back in his day for what would be considered the AA team today for the Tigers.

Charles Avison: 4:24

And then we're going to do a show on Del Baker who was in 1935 and 1936, he was the Tigers bench coach. He was like their third base coach really, but he was on the bench for the Tigers. But Del Baker was what again? He was their Class A coach which today would be their triple-A like the highest level before the majors. But Del Baker was the guy who, like the team at uh for 1933 at beaumont, texas, which was the class a again the highest level minor league team in for the, for the tigers had, that team was like basically what the 1935 tigers I mean the lineup of beaumont, the beaumont explorers. They won the championship in 1933. They just had this awesome lineup and a lot of these guys were the guys that would be the foundation of the Tigers in 35.

Charles Avison: 5:11

So, like I say, and then Del Baker himself got promoted to be on the Tigers. So not only did the Tigers players, did these young guys come up and make an absolutely massive impact in the majors, but the manager from the team got promoted to the Tigers. So that's what's interesting. So that's to me like that's to understand. It's a key thing for understanding who Del Baker was and like the impact he had and who all these players were and stuff. So that's what I mean. So I think it's an interesting dive into understanding more about this season.

Jamie Flanagan: 5:42

Who did we want to talk about today? So we're going to talk about another one of the scouts, another scout east of the Mississippi, and his name was Eddie Goosetree. Okay, and so I always love the names.

Charles Avison: 5:56

Yeah, so Eddie Goosetree, and you can show a picture of him that I sent you.

Jamie Flanagan: 6:00

Oh yeah, I can.

Charles Avison: 6:01

So this picture I'm showing Eddie Go Gooster. The thing that's interesting is if you actually at least for me I did a Google search. I always do a Google search just to see where the information is today, because I wrote this book in 2014. So how fast is the information caught up with what's out there? I guess.

Charles Avison: 6:20

What haven't I seen since I did these books and there's like I mean, you see Eddie Goostry's name pop up all the time and a lot of it. It's really in conjunction with the signing of Schoolboy Row. It's basically like all these stories of Schoolboy Row being signed. Schoolboy Row, of course, is just in 1934, he was just absolutely the rookie sensation of baseball and, uh, I didn't even I caught a little a side note that, um, that uh, school by roll finished in for 1934, which is like his first real breakout season. I think he played a little bit in 1933, but 34 was his big breakout year and he finished, um, he finished fourth in the mvp voting and it was the people that was the people that finished. In front of him were Mickey Cochran, who won the MVP of the American League. Second was Lou Gehrig, who finished with the Triple Crown, which is one of the rarest things to do. It's when you lead in batting average home runs and RBIs. Okay, so Lou Gehrig had that Triple crown, which is like one of the. I don't think there's been like four or five people in the history of baseball that's ever done it. It's one of the rarest things you can do. So Lou Gehrig finished second to Mickey Cochran when he won the triple crown. Then you had Babe Ruth at number three and then you had Schoolboy in 34. So he picked a winner. And then you had Schoolboy in 34. So he picked a winner. Yeah, so he was up there.

Charles Avison: 7:49

So what I'm saying is that he was such a sensation, and so you see a lot of modern day articles. If you Google Eddie Goose Tree, basically every article you're going to see is just talking about how Schoolboy Row was signed, and that's how it is. But what you don't see is I was trying to find another, because I only have one picture of Eddie Goose Tree. It and that's how it is. But what you don't see is I was trying to find another, because I only have one picture of Eddie Goosey. It's the one we have on our screen. Okay, and that's it, folks, that's the only, for as far as I've seen, that's the only picture that I mean. I don't want to say it's the only one that exists, but it's the only one that's in the sort of public domain where you just do a Google search.

Jamie Flanagan: 8:22

I I mean I'm sure Chris is going to prove us wrong and do a deep dive into it and find some like awesome picture of Eddie Goose Street but from what I've seen, this is the only picture I have.

Charles Avison: 8:29

I've seen of him.

Jamie Flanagan: 8:31

Is it in the book too?

Charles Avison: 8:32

This is the one I took right out of the book, yeah, just to show it, and so the screenshot we have is Eddie Goose Street, of course, his find, which is Schoolboy Row, and he signed Schoolboy at age of 16. He was only 16 years old. He signed them to a deal.

Charles Avison: 8:47

Yeah, he had them on the hook for the tigers and so but.

Charles Avison: 8:51

But so he was East of the Mississippi but his territory was actually kind of it was like a Southern East of the Mississippi, so he had, I think he had his territory was the South and so he so South, and so he had all these southern states. As a list, you can show the next slide we have. It's kind of a list of all these who's who, players that he signed. So the players, the slide we have on the screen we have a player named Virgil Trucks who was not part of the 35 Tigers but he had major success with the Tigers after 35. Rudy York, which we have a great picture of Rudy putting on his Tiger jersey after he was signed.

Charles Avison: 9:28

A guy that we talked about briefly, dixie Howell, who was just a huge. He was the quarterback for Alabama when they won the 1935 Rose Bowl, so the Tigers signed him in 36, and he was like the literally number one guy in all of sports to sign. He was the most biggest star in football, baseball, no matter what you want to put it, and the receiver that he like he and the receiver that he played with I think it was. Don Hudson was the receiver he played with with Alabama that won this Rose Bowl. Don Hudson became like the first great, like epic wide receiver in NFL history, like like dedicated wide receiver. He went to the Green Bay Packers and he became just like superstar for the Packers, like game-changing down-the-field threat for the Green Bay Packers, and he was the guy that Dixie Howell threw to at Alabama. So Dixie Howell was the other half of this combination, and Dixie Howell went to go play outfield for the Tigers and he was signed by Eddie Goostry, and so you have him. And then you have Hub and G Walker, which G Walker is Joe Lewis's favorite player and he's a fan favorite of ours, and so you have his brother.

Charles Avison: 10:38

Hub Walker was also signed by Eddie Goostry. The pair of them were, and they were signed out of University of Mississippi, and so Rudy York was out of Georgia, virgil Trucks was out of Alabama, dixie Howell was out of Alabama, and so you had you know, and Scuba Roll was out of Arkansas. Yeah, so you can see, just like, based on the guys that he signed, were all this like southern territory. So yeah, so that's that's, that's his, you know that's his territory, so you know he. Just that you know who's who sort of legends and I will, uh, I just want to read. I saw a pretty, a really good article, um, when I was just kind of browsing through, and this, uh, this was, uh, this is an article I vintage, vintage.

Jamie Flanagan: 11:21

Detroit always has some really great articles I've been finding you read it.

Charles Avison: 11:25

Yeah, vintage detroit's always I it's, I mean they're, they're a great site and anybody that's, if you ever, we ever, have a chance to bring any of these writers on.

Charles Avison: 11:31

I would love to talk with them because, because they always have some really good articles and, um, this and this article is really great because it they have a really in-depth look. I mean, I've got some quotes about the Schoolboy Row too, but this was a really good. This was kind of like a really good sort of start to finish about the signing of Row. So this is I just want to read the sort of signing of Schoolboy Row. It says, okay, so like all, great. So I so this is. So I'll cite the article first. So it's vintage Detroitcom. If anybody, if you're, if, if anybody has not signed up to vintage Detroitcom to get their news, our, you know, their stories or history, they're missing out because they've got some great stuff. And so this article is written by Scott Ferkovich on February 19th 2017. I'm just getting so. The title of the article is Schoolboy Roll's Arm and Eccentricities Made Him a Hero for the Tigers, and so I'm just going to read a little excerpt from when he signed him, and so it just sort of picks up right here. He's kind of talking about how he got his name, his nickname and all this. So it dives into it and says, like all great high school athletes in those days, he meaning school by role was a multi-sport star. He was only an average student, although he did receive a prize for penmanship. When not at school or on the athletic field, roe usually be found caddying at Oakhurst Golf Club or hawking newspapers on a downtown street corner. It says Roe loved the competition of sports. Whether it was football, it says lots.

Charles Avison: 13:20

However, the Detroit Tigers eventually got wind of his exploits. They dispatched scout Eddie Goosetree to El Dorado to see what all the fuss was. Goosetree located the Rowe homestead and knocked on the front door. When an undersized middle-aged man opened it and acknowledged that he was Linwood Rowe's father, goosetree's heart sank. Thomas Rowe resembled nothing so much as a bank teller. He did not look like the type of man capable of siring a progeny worthy of the legends making the rounds. In truth, goose Tree misread the role patriarch, who had been a circus trapeze performer in his younger, more vigorous days. Schoolboy, for his part, always insisted that his pop had been an architect. Mr Roll told Goose Tree that Linwood most likely could be found down at the firehouse, not expecting much but figuring he had already made the long trip and might as well see it through the scout.

Charles Avison: 14:08

Headed for the firehouse, goosetree took one look at Rowe, who was big for his age and decided he might make good, especially since the kids should continue to grow. It says Rowe eventually topped out at 6'4". It says using the persuasive powers of a $250 bonus, goosetree got the supposedly 16-year-old Lin Wood to sign a Detroit Tigers contract. Eddie wrote out the contract in the back end of a hook and ladder truck in the Eldorado Firehouse. Rowe explained years later. Of course he was not yet of legal age to put pen to anything, so the elder Rowe had to co-sign the document. Schoolboy's professional baseball odball Odyssey was about to begin. Yep, so that was yeah, so he signed them on the back of a fire truck.

Jamie Flanagan: 14:53

Just got to go in. We like to sign it on the glove box, my brother we have to sign the traveler check. Blues Brothers. Sign it here yeah, $250.

Charles Avison: 15:04

$250. Yeah, geez, yeah.

Jamie Flanagan: 15:05

But that was big money. Blues Brothers Sign it here. Yeah, $250. $250. Yeah, geez, yeah, but that was big money back then. Well, here's the thing. That was fair money.

Charles Avison: 15:09

Well, here's the thing the way I've been doing, that was fair, the way I've been doing. This is just a side note, okay, mm-hmm. I know that if you look up the amount of somebody from the past and you say how much was the dollars? In this back then compared to today, the inflation. But here's the thing. Okay, look it up for me, jamie, you're good at looking those up, so look at the inflation at cost of 250. I want to blow your mind with something.

Jamie Flanagan: 15:33

I want to blow your mind with something. Yeah, so it was so look up 250, like how you normally look up what year was it?

Charles Avison: 15:38

This is 1930, so he was 16. Let's just say like 19. I just closed it off. Hold on, let me see. It was 19 when Roe was supposedly 16. So when was he born? Put me on the spot here, man.

Jamie Flanagan: 15:56

It was my impression there would be no math. Yeah, no, I'll do math, but I just have to find it the right date. Yeah, the date.

Charles Avison: 16:04

So he was 16 years old. He's probably 20-something. Yeah, it's going to be in the 20s. Hold on a second. Let me see Schoolboy Rowe.

Jamie Flanagan: 16:12

Schoolboy Rowe was born in. I don't want to Google search, I just want to use my book, charles is screaming at the screen right now. Who is Chris? Chris?

Charles Avison: 16:22

Is he saying what year it is? No, so he was born in 1912, so 16 would be 1928. All right 1928 worth today, so $250 from 1928.

Jamie Flanagan: 16:36

So it's like $4,500. $4,500.

Charles Avison: 16:43

So I want to match something up. Okay, keep that number in mind. Anybody listening. Keep that number in mind, okay, because I'm going to blow your mind with something. I think that all of those inflation calculators are wrong, yeah, oh yeah. And the reason I think they're wrong is this I can calculate a better amount just off the top of my head, and I'll explain why. Because back in, what was it? 1928? Right, was that what you said? Yep, so anyways. So back then, the money was made of silver. Yes, the dollars were made of silver. So if Schoolboy Row was paid in silver, okay, silver certificates, well, silver coins.

Charles Avison: 17:15

Let's say let's say he took his thing in silver because that's what the money was, so silver. If he was paid in silver, let's say half dollars, because it's a little bit quirky with the amount, so 0.18 is a quarter, okay, 0.18 ounces of silver is in a quarter, 0.18 ounce of silver in a quarter, so times four, so there's 0.72 ounces in a dollar. Is one silver. Dollar is the value of silver in one dollar. Okay, okay, times 250, that's 180 ounces of silver that he would have been paid. All right, silver today is going for, let's say, $28.62 an ounce, okay, okay. So you multiply that by $28.62. So $5,151 in today's money and that's the value of the silver that he got back then, because the spending power of this silver and gold stays consistent.

Jamie Flanagan: 18:13

Well $5,000.

Charles Avison: 18:13

$5,000. But I want to blow your mind even further.

Jamie Flanagan: 18:15

One more thing.

Charles Avison: 18:16

All right. So if he would have been paid in gold, right, which, why not? If he's going to get paid in $250, he could also be paid in gold, right, the gold. So the gold, a gold $20 coin. Okay, that's just shy of one ounce of gold. Okay, let's say 0.98 is about what it was, okay, okay, so 0.98, that's $20. Sure, okay. So 250 divided by 20, okay, that's 12.5. So he would have gotten 12.5 gold one-ounce coins instead. Okay, all right. So I'm going to multiply that by .98. So he would have gotten 12.25 ounces of gold Let me make sure that number's

Charles Avison: 19:06

right. 250 divided by 20. So he would have got 12.5 coins times 0.98. Yeah, so 12.25 ounces of gold times the current gold price, which is right, about $2,300. Well, actually it's closer to $2,400. So we'll say $2,350, just to split the difference. In that case it's $28,787. So there's, you know, because gold and silver have sort of separated a little bit. So that's what I'm saying is that, depending on what, the way he preferred to take his payment you see what I'm saying, like the inflation calculator is $4,000.

Jamie Flanagan: 19:40

You know, pay rent, buy meals. Sure, you know pay rent, buy meals Sure, and he had to spend the money Sure.

Charles Avison: 19:45

And he signed at 16, which is the most unproven product you can possibly be. Yeah, especially since it doesn't sound like Eddie Gooster actually watched too many of his games. He just sort of signed them sight unseen. Yeah, but I just think it's interesting that when we're talking about the inflation rate, there's different inflation rates. Did he take it in silver? Did he take it in gold? Did he take it in a combination? And the thing is about it is that the spending power of that gold and silver has remained the same.

Jamie Flanagan: 20:15

He took it in his pockets.

Charles Avison: 20:16

Yes, is where he took it Silver and gold.

Jamie Flanagan: 20:19

Okay. Well, he would have been paid either silver or gold, but he had expenses and he had to spend it, so it's not like he was able to sit on it.

Charles Avison: 20:28

No, I'm just talking about the pure exchange rate. I'm just saying for what he got paid at that exact moment. That's what I'm talking about is that those conversion rates are slightly askew, based on what you're talking about. Was he paid in?

Jamie Flanagan: 20:41

gold? Was he paid in silver? What was a house worth? What did you pay for an average house? What did you pay for an average car? Well, that's what I'm trying to say.

Charles Avison: 20:49

Back then, it was different, of course, so a house had been like five grand or something, but the thing is, the spending power has stayed the same, the same approximation of the gold and silver versus the items that you would have bought with them back then. People say, oh, back in my day a car was like 500 bucks. Well that's because you were using gold and silver to buy it. You know what?

Charles Avison: 21:12

I mean that was your coinage was made of precious metals. That's why it's so different today. The spending power has basically remained, has changed, based on the devaluation of the dollar. So what I'm saying is is I think it's interesting I did that same equation using the Germans after World War I. The Treaty of Versailles stipulated that they paid like 500 billion gold marks In the conversion ratio. When people today go, if you look at Wikipedia, they say that's like $1 trillion in today's money and I'm like that's not true because that's not that odious of a payment. A trillion dollars today is something that people sign off like. It's nothing Like one year back then it completely led to literally World War II, the payments and that Actually, when they say the gold marks, they had to owe that money in gold marks. When you actually factor in that number that they owed, it was like $500 billion times what the gold marks were, right? You actually factor that in the price of gold, sure yeah.

Charles Avison: 22:16

That's when you see that it's like freaking $20 trillion or something. That's when you see the real exchange. Something that's when you see the real exchange. What I'm saying is, just as what I'm trying to get at is this is that anybody that's looking at that's trying to evaluate or look at the price of somebody from the past a signing bonus or something that has to do with history, with the amount, you have to keep in mind that the money that they had back then was made of gold and silver and to use that as your equation to understand what the silver content or gold content was in order to find that approximation.

Jamie Flanagan: 22:51

But I'm just going to say this and then we can move on. These numbers I have. They're on the internet, so you know. Well, you're right, Jamie, I stand corrected for everything I said. I stand completely corrected. Don't pay no attention to the guy over here.

Charles Avison: 23:08

With real facts, with real.

Jamie Flanagan: 23:10

No, I have no, with real math, my information is pure speculation folks.

Charles Avison: 23:17

And going against the internet? It is no. There is not a competition.

Jamie Flanagan: 23:20

But he gets signed on the back of a fire truck for $250. Yes, was that for his first year?

Charles Avison: 23:29

That's just a signing bonus.

Jamie Flanagan: 23:30

Oh, that was a signing bonus.

Charles Avison: 23:31

Yeah, so he signed him for that and then he would get paid when he actually played for the team. He would get X amount of bonuses.

Jamie Flanagan: 23:36

All right, sign with us. Here's a couple of bucks for bus fare. Yeah.

Charles Avison: 23:42

Yeah, they basically bought his rights for that. Nobody else could touch his rights. The Tigers owned his rights and if he was going to play for any team it was going to be for them. And so, as a result, of course, when you sign a guy like that, your obligation. That's why the baseball player salaries those were actually comparatively low compared to modern day because the team has no competition.

Charles Avison: 24:07

They own the players' rights and so the only way a player is going to get rid of that team and say, oh, I want to go test my luck with another team, that option didn't exist back then you had to be traded to that other team or you had to like I mean, sitting out was really not like an option Like people you'd basically be like there was like a sort of a, almost like an honor system like an option. Like people you'd be basically be like there was like a sort of a and like almost like an honor system. Like you wouldn't like sit out. I mean, I mean it's, I take it back. I think ty cobb sat out, I think you know they kind of he dragged his feet or whatever, but, um, you had to be like a top tier guy, like to, you know, try to sit out so he signed in 28.

Jamie Flanagan: 24:40

He didn't really start playing till 33 well, he had.

Charles Avison: 24:45

He had, I think he had one year with beaumont and we have a great article. We're gonna be using that to talk with dell baker how he had like one year in the minors and then came right up with the tiger, so it was like 32 when he actually went and played with the with the beaumont exporters the 1932 season.

Charles Avison: 24:59

But but between then he's only 16, so he was playing town ball and, you know, playing a couple other traveling around playing other places Under the Tigers sort of watchful eye, of course, but yeah, when he finally we'll read an article here in an ensuing show that talks about when schoolboy landed at the Tigers' top-level system. He wasn't even supposed to be there. He was just passing through Beaumont, Texas, just to get a couple tips from Del Baker on his way to a lower level and Del Baker said you're not going anywhere. This is the greatest pitching prospect I've ever seen in my life.

Jamie Flanagan: 25:34

You're throwing some balls dude.

Charles Avison: 25:36

Well, del Baker was a catcher and he caught a couple pitches from Scooby-Doo. He said this kid's not going anywhere.

Jamie Flanagan: 25:49

And they're like well, he's not gonna, he's in there. Like well, he's ticketed for the lower, you know the class b. He's supposed to be going to the lower level, he's our ticket, so get him in here.

Charles Avison: 25:51

Yeah, he's like no, dell baker saw him. I mean, he's realized immediately there's a great article we're gonna get to him with that, but okay, but he's. He was like he's not going anywhere and he's not even gonna be here for long. He's going, he. This kid's headed to the majors and he's one of the he's. This could be one of the best players that's ever played the game. Del Baker was instantly like this kid no, he's way too good for the next level down. This kid is elite and he knew nothing about him. Rowe just arrived at the stage. He's like oh yeah, give a couple tips from Del Baker on our way to Evansville.

Jamie Flanagan: 26:20

Loosen up, loosen up a little bit.

Charles Avison: 26:21

Yeah and he's like no, he's not going anywhere, he's staying right here with me. He overwrote all the scouts and all that.

Jamie Flanagan: 26:28

He was like no, he's not going anywhere, I'll keep him. He's very, very nice. I'm going to keep this one.

Charles Avison: 26:34

So this is the guy, eddie Goosetree, that signed schoolboy row and signed several other guys that would contribute to the Tigers and we've talked about in the past. This is a little final asterisk on Dixie Howell, because he's just a guy that doesn't ever get any mention and he got hit in the face by a baseball in I think it was spring training 1936. He got hit in the head by a baseball. It messed him up. He got hit in the head by a baseball. It messed him up, oh. So that's the speculation on why he never really amounted to much, but he took a baseball off the head, man, oh, just like Mickey Cochran did. Mickey Cochran was never right after that either. So I think it was 37 that Mickey Cochran got hit in the head. But it's not some easy thing to get hit in the head by a baseball when you don't have a helmet on.

Charles Avison: 27:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean they weren't throwing quite as fast but I still wouldn't want to get hit with one of them balls. No, not at all.

Jamie Flanagan: 27:40

Did Eddie play himself? Was he a player?

Charles Avison: 27:43

Yeah, he's got a pretty extensive, like uh, minor league history. Yeah, I think it was a third baseman, but he didn't. The stats are fairly incomplete for minor league, like I mean he played back in like 1908. It was, like you know, early baseball yeah and so he. Uh, so he, but his so, but he played in the minor leagues, which the stats for minor leagues in the early 1900s are scattered at best.

Jamie Flanagan: 28:07

Oh no, these are pictures of York.

Charles Avison: 28:09

Yeah.

Jamie Flanagan: 28:09

So, yeah, there's not pictures of Eddie. No, I'm finding pictures of people he signed.

Charles Avison: 28:14

Yeah, that's what I mean. Like whenever you see him, it's just people he signed. That's what's kind of interesting is all these different stories of all these. Like you know, Rudy York was a major name for the Tigers. That Rudy York was a major name for the Tigers. That was a guy, that was a. I mean, he was a big name and so you know this is, of course, goodway Rowe big name, virgil Trucks big name in his day.

Charles Avison: 28:32

Yeah, and any time that you ever see a story talking about these guys, it's always like oh, signed by Eddie Goostry, and it's like well, who you know? It's just the name. Talking about that. There's actually a guy who was able to beat the bushes and find these guys. So I have another story to read which I think is really cool because this talks about Eddie Goostry and how the actual scramble for finding these players and in this case, this story we're going to read is cool because he's battling out with a Yankee scout for finding these players. And in this case, this story we're going to read is cool because he's battling out with a Yankee scout for signing a guy, like in previous ones there was, the story was last time, was like you know, he just signed the pre. You know we talked about you know. So it was a guy we talked about with that was like you know they talked about. You know Wish Egan, but he was like Wish Egan and Doyle Alexander. You know how they found some guy and then they signed him in some unique spot. Or even in the case of Eddie Goostry, where he signed Scooter on the back of a firetruck. But here in this case we've got a guy where he's competing with a Yankee scout to go after somebody. So there's actually somebody that two scouts are sort of they're at least in the same vicinity and it's just an interesting story. And it's just an interesting story. So we're going to read this. So the story comes from the Detroit Times by Bud Shaver, and the date of the story was November 22, 1935. So we will get to this here.

Charles Avison: 29:58

So most picturesque of all the baseball trades is that of a scout. The ivory hunters who beat through the highways and byways in search of baseball talent meet up with some quaint adventures. The business has become highly competitive in late years. Every yokel of promising ability is pursued by half a dozen rival scouts and word of the stalking travels through the victim's home district like wildfire, which makes the scouts' work difficult and trying. More than one country ball player has been flushed out of the bushes, knocked down and signed to a contract with such force and haste that he is on his way as a chattel before he is fully conscious. The special requirements of their calling developed a rough brand of ethics and commercial code among the scouts. Some of their methods may seem crude and undignified, but when you are digging up diamonds in the rough which may turn out to be worth thousands of dollars, you can't waste much time on the propriety. So the subtitle of this is he's a roof climber.

Charles Avison: 30:53

Eddie Goosetree, one of the Tigers' ablest scouts, has encountered strange adventures. It was Goosetree who signed up schoolboy role on the back end of a fire truck. His latest exploit was the signing of a young catcher on the roof of a house. When scouts chase ballplayers up on the roof, they really are after them. The story of how Parsons, 19-year-old Alabama catcher, became the property of Detroit is typical of Goostry's scouting adventures.

Charles Avison: 31:17

Goostry was tipped off on Parsons by Art Decatur, a former Brooklyn pitcher whom Goostry hadn't seen in 22 years. Despite the long lapse of years, goostry was able to spot Decatur in the grandstand and the hunt began. Come on, decatur said Goostry, I can take you to the kid, but you'll have to work fast. The whole town knows you are here and other scouts are on his trail too. If too many of you guys crowd in there it is apt to cost you a bigger hunk of dough than you want to pay down for this boy's contract. So off they went to Parsons' home.

Charles Avison: 31:48

The future tiger catcher was up on the roof with his dad putting down new shingles. Since time was the essence of the contract, goose Tree didn't waste any. He shinnied up the roof, put on his persuasive sales talk, whipped out a fountain pen and had young Parsons sign to a contract with his father's consent, before a good carpenter could lay a single shingle. He's a real good prospect too, boasts Goose Tree proudly. About 6'1", he weighs 180 and can hit like all get-out. He's active as a cat and can throw on the run too. He's been playing for the Somerset Mills in a textile league near his hometown of Talladega, alabama. Next year we will put him out there with the Alexandria Virginia team. You'll be seeing him one of these days. So seize rival work.

Charles Avison: 32:30

Strangest of all, however, is Goostery's tale of the signing of a ball player in a ditch. This time it wasn't Goostery who did the signing. This time it wasn't Goostery who did the signing. I was out in the bushes when I ran into Johnny Knee, scout for the Yankees, and a darn good one too, said Eddie. I was driving a car and Johnny asked for a lift. Neither one of us let on where we were headed or whom we were hunting, that being regarded as a sucker play in our racket. So we just chinned of everything except what was in our minds. So we just chinned of everything.

Jamie Flanagan: 33:03

I was just talking, yeah.

Charles Avison: 33:05

Except for what was on our minds. So they're talking about everything except for who they're looking for. So as we drove through one little town, near a high school athletic field, johnny suddenly yelled there's that son of a gun now. He didn't even wait for the car to stop, but tore right out of the front seat and started legging it up to where the bunch of high school kids were tramping along toward the athletic field. I saw Johnny make a flying tackle of the biggest kid and both of them disappeared. I was itching to know who it was and how Johnny was making out, but it wouldn't have been proper for me to have tailed after him, so I just sat there In a little while. Johnny came hot-footing it back, beaming all over. I got him by golly. He yelled, all signed and delivered, even if I did have to throw him in a ditch where his coach couldn't see what I was up to. Fellow turned out to be a pretty good ball player, concluded Goose Tree, although he never made the big time.

Jamie Flanagan: 33:54

Yes.

Charles Avison: 33:54

There you go. Yeah, so this is that era when baseball like folklore, where you have these roving scouts who are it's like you know they are in the, you know it's just these wild stories that you know that pop up from legacy baseball of these scouts which are just on these adventures to find guys like diamonds in the rough. And the guy you mentioned, by the way, I looked him up, this guy he talks about with Dixie Parsons, and he was actually pretty good. He was not wrong. The guy was pretty good. I mean, he made the major leagues for a couple of years. He didn't play much. He had like like 300 at bats. I just based on my my analytics that dixie parsons should have actually had way more of a chance in the major leagues. I I'm not sure what happened to him, but he looked like he used to do pretty well in the minor leagues. So he wasn't wrong about that kid.

Jamie Flanagan: 34:54

I found another picture of Eddie.

Charles Avison: 34:57

Goostry, Did you?

Jamie Flanagan: 34:58

Let me see yeah yeah, so he's there and this is a little bit later in this. It's coming from the Richmond Library, richmond, south Carolina.

Charles Avison: 35:10

Okay, cool.

Jamie Flanagan: 35:11

And it's the Local and Family History Center. It's Baseball Scout Eddie Goostry at the Capital City Ballpark.

Charles Avison: 35:19

I knew there had to be more pictures of him 1956. Yeah, I knew there had to be more pictures of him. I mean because his name pops up so much.

Jamie Flanagan: 35:26

He watches the Columbia Gems baseball team during practice in 1956.

Charles Avison: 35:33

Good find, Jamie Good find.

Jamie Flanagan: 35:37

He's not a young dude in that one, no, that's a little later on.

Charles Avison: 35:41

So the picture I had was more or less from 1935, and this is sort of his later in life, but it's cool to see him. I figured that there has to be more pictures. I'm not trying to claim that. I'm not trying to say oh, this is the only picture that exists no let's there's got to be more out there.

Jamie Flanagan: 35:54

There are few and far between. Everything I'm finding about him has pictures of people he's signed. That's what I'm saying. That that's what I'm saying.

Charles Avison: 36:03

That's what I'm trying to say. Is that all these other it's always been referenced to these things and rather than the scouts themselves?

Charles Avison: 36:09

you know, that's what I'm saying. Like there's the history, like the history of, like the mechanics of how these teams were shaped, like how the scouting system was built, how the coaching system, like where, like the affiliate teams, I did a full study on the original, which was Branch Rickey, and all the teams they bought. I literally systematically went through and tracked down when they bought each team, because if you just look up a general idea of when did the affiliate system start they always talk about, oh, it was in the mid to late 1920s. There's no specifics. I can, with my chart, a history of the St Louis Cardinals and Branch Rickey, I can actually give you specific details on when they acquired each team and the evolution of that affiliate system. As I'm saying, I think it's really interesting for how? This? For you know that Major League Baseball is this $10 billion industry and there's so many people that are so into baseball, but there really hasn't been any studies on the actual development of the way things are today.

Charles Avison: 37:14

The mechanics like the actual nuts and bolts of how the league is put together. And along those same lines, I had to do my own study on the history of expansion because the lack of information, of a general guide of how these new teams came into the league. I mean you can read just sort of general information about how, like, oh, this team, they did this to get their team and then they did that. But as far as, like again, the mechanics, the nuts and bolts of how the organizations were built, the information is just incredibly lacking. It's incredibly lacking. I mean it's an entire field of study. That has been. I just try to dip my toes in the water with this. You know, in the appendix of this book you know talking about, I just thought it was relevant to talk about the Tigers in 35 to kind of get the ball rolling.

Jamie Flanagan: 38:02

Yeah, so it's interesting to see these guys behind the scenes. But you know, photography is so prolific now. I mean, you know everybody has a super high-quality camera in their pocket and you can launch the damn space shuttle from your wrist. You know, it's astounding the power of computing that we have at our fingertips today. But back then it was the photographer with. The photography was further and farther between.

Charles Avison: 38:35

These pictures are rarer but the interesting thing about the photography I do a whole section on photography at the time too the media and all this, the photographers and stuff, and the interesting thing was is that they uh, you know, they had they, they, the newspapers were the primary vehicle of information, and so the when you look at these newspapers from back in the day, these things like they, I mean they, they, they put a ton of effort into these newspapers, the newspapers of that you could argue. You could easily make the case that newspapers back then were vastly superior to the newspapers of today. Because now, yes, they have pictures, yes, they have stories, but the newspapers back then it was like they had to compete Big time and so, like, for instance, the Free Press of News, they had these Sunday edition, these rotogravure supplements, and they're just the most gorgeous pictorials. They would show like international things, they would show local things, they would show, like you know, national things, you know, of course, from around the country, and like the pictorials at the end.

Charles Avison: 39:41

I mean, if you ever get a scrapbook from the 1930s, you can buy them. They're all over the place. You get scrapbooks that people paste and stuff in, and it's almost always the Rotor Graveers from the time. They're just absolutely gorgeous. And then, of course, if you look at the picture we had up there with the Virgil trucks, one of the things that they loved to do was these magic eyes, where they showed these players in motion, and we've shown a ton of them across the span of the show, where they love to show these players in motion as they're pitching, to show their readers. Action in the papers, and then the writing itself was always, you know, they had their stand.

Jamie Flanagan: 40:24

Colorful, to say the least.

Charles Avison: 40:25

But colorful, to say the least. They wanted to show action. They wanted to show action, they wanted to show movement, and they would do these things because these guys were I mean, it's your classic, you've seen Superman or Spider-Man or whatever. They've got these newsrooms where there's guys smoking cigars and that classic thing, and that's how this works. Smoking cigars and that classic thing, and that's how this was. And they would be writing. You know, they would be writing stories like tongue in cheek, joking with each other and like communicating with other writers, because they did this every single day and we're just. You know, there was like this sense of humor behind it all and like I mean, it's you know. So that's what I'm saying is like it was a different. You know it was a different era.

Charles Avison: 41:07

Yeah, the job of news gathering was a different, a different job all together back then and one of my favorite articles I have in any of the books was at the end of the first one, which was it was the story I had to put it in the appendix of the first book because it was a story of how these stories made it into the newspapers. It was a story of one of joe lewis's fights oh, it was called the birth of a fight. It's in the appendix of the first book and it's just one of the most fascinating things because they talked about how that they're reporting on there's a guy watching a Joe Lewis fight in New York. Right, I think it was against Max Bayer, one of them. It was a big fight, yeah.

Charles Avison: 41:41

And he's watching the fight and he's telling another guy over here who's like typing it up like you know, basically like a you know, it's like a stenographer at a court case you know like he's like there's another person, you know, typing it up, and then there's another guy over here who, as he's handing off, you know, copies off of the typewriter, this guy over here is sending wiring the thing to detroit then there's a guy in det Detroit who is typesetting it into the to it for an extra edition of the newspaper. And so and then like there's another, there's another guy who after it's typeset there's another guy's like proof in it and editing and all this.

Charles Avison: 42:18

And then there's and it's the whole the story in the in this newspaper is they're describing how they put this story together and how they put this story together. And then there's another guy who's like, basically his job is like standing there with his finger on the button ready to like?

Jamie Flanagan: 42:30

hit the button to hit print right, and then they're like he's like, so they go now and they're like not yet, just wait for it. That's how it is, that's how they describe it.

Charles Avison: 42:39

He's like got his finger. He's like all right, I no, no, no, wait, you know. And so there's all this whole thing going on. And the second that it's time to hit the button, he does and the machine's going to action. Their papers are bound up, they spit it out in the streets. They got the newsboys out there going extra, extra. Joe Lewis wins the fight and it's like five minutes after the fight ends.

Charles Avison: 43:01

And they're selling papers on the street corner because not everybody got to listen to the fight. They want to read about the fight. Some big event happened and they're getting these extra edition papers out. It's just like today Whenever there's some kind of event going on, everybody's scrambling to their phones to read about what's happening or watch videos on it or whatever Same thing back then.

Charles Avison: 43:18

But they're selling papers on the street like five minutes after the event happens and it's just amazing. It really is. It's like they're um, it's just a, it's a, it's an, it's a. It's a fascinating time and, you know, it's really a privilege to be able to to bring some of this stuff out, you know I'm glad to bring it back back to life.

Jamie Flanagan: 43:36

Yeah, uh, a little bit more stories we will bring to life as we go through them on the podcast yeah, no thank everybody for taking the time and being with us. Like subscribe, you know, do all the podcast things and all the podcast places yes, like and subscribe all that stuff.

Charles Avison: 43:53

It really helps and spread the word. And let uh invite one friend to join our show and watch it. One person, that's all you gotta do that's all your job.

Jamie Flanagan: 44:02

Just tell one person. Yes, one, charles. You got one person passionate about the project and then went away over 112 episodes in. Yeah, I've got one person.

Charles Avison: 44:10

Well, you got me I mean, you know, yeah, we got chris too. Yeah, oh, you got two. All right, we got. There's a couple other people too. We're just not mentioning them. My sister loves us, my daily we we got.

Jamie Flanagan: 44:20

There's people that we got some fans, but no, I'm just saying you, you're, yeah, I was your one person and now we're 120. Oh, yeah, no. I see what you're saying yes, no, you were Jamie.

Charles Avison: 44:31

It was my great fortune to have met you when we did. Oh, it was fun. It's been a ride.

Jamie Flanagan: 44:35

Yes, so the Podcast, your Voice studios here on the border of Berkeley and Southfield of Michigan. You want to make some noise. We can make it happen for you.

Charles Avison: 44:48

Coaching a noise. We can make it happen for you.

Jamie Flanagan: 44:49

Uh, coaching a few new shows kicking off. Yeah, jamie's got all kinds of shows. Session 35, make it make sense. There's one, it's killing me, uh, foaming friends. That's a new show. You got the guy he does like spray foam insulation, uh, and it's like a whole world really of, of, of, like the mechanics of it.

Charles Avison: 45:05

Really.

Jamie Flanagan: 45:06

And the machines, but it's really them just talking about their lives.

Charles Avison: 45:13

It's more of a social thing.

Jamie Flanagan: 45:15

It's going to be interesting. Yeah, just podcastyourvoicecom on Facebook. You can see the people that record there, you know. And the Motor City Hypnotist and Miss Mouthy have been with us forever. And man Cave Happy Hour, the other one that I do.

Charles Avison: 45:33

Jamie's basically broadcasting like all like constantly. You do shows constantly. How many shows are you on now?

Jamie Flanagan: 45:38

No, I just got my three.

Charles Avison: 45:40

Well you got the radio show too.

Jamie Flanagan: 45:42

Oh, the Radio Cobra, yeah, radio Cobra, radio Cobra, detroit, that's four, yeah, yeah yeah, so Jamie's on the airwaves.

Charles Avison: 45:50

Yeah.

Jamie Flanagan: 45:52

Surfing my way through. But yeah, so there you go. So lots of fun and we'll have more fun and lots more of the City of Champions story coming.

Charles Avison: 46:01

Coming soon.

Jamie Flanagan: 46:02

All right, we'll do it again. See you next time. It's Detroit City of Champions.